Have watched "Loose Change 2nd Edition" (downloadable here), and I am deprecating my Conspiracy Rebuttal video. My primary criticism of In Plane Site was the misleading flash-before-impact footage they presented. And the other accusations in both videos revolved around whether on not a plane impacted the pentagon, which I felt was effectively refuted by witnesses.
Unless you are concerned about flashes-before-imapct I'd suggest avoiding "In Plane Site" and my rebuttal altogether. Let's call flashes-before-impact discredited, and move on to more substansial issues.
"Loose Change 2nd Edition" presses a different set of points, one's I'm not presently qualified to argue for or against. I can nit pick the video, and nit pick some of its arguments (what constitutes a statistically significant anomoly in stock trading records), but by in large watching the video was an interesting experience.
Having created my rebuttal in 2004, I stopped following 9/11 conspiracy theories and assumed I had remained well informed regarding what was being postulated. Wrong, I'm not up-to-speed. Until I am presented with counter-arguments refuting the charges in "Loose Change 2nd Edition", I'm simply going to recommend anyone with an interest in 9/11 watch that video, and also visit up-to-date rebuttal sites.
It's completely within the Bush administration's power to refute accusations of conspiracy. Release footage of Pentagon impacts. Answer questions regarding mistaken identities of 9/11 hijackers. Address why the video tape released by the State Department purported to show Bin Laden claiming responsibility for the attack shows a person who looks nothing like Bin Laden.
I am NOT claiming "Loose Change 2nd Edition" is accurate. But I'm not up to disproving it. And until I can come to a conclusion (or at least feel a reasonable level of certainty one way or the other, the feeling of skepticism I felt when editing my original rebuttal video) I'm encouraging everyone to watch it and follow up with their own investigations.
The Bush administration has shown their willingness to deceive. I'd previously assumed that was simply for the sake of political self-preservation due to their incompetence in handling all things 9/11. It doesn't matter why. They are liars, and the onus is on THEM to prove what they say really happened. -Gord
--- (Original post follows:)
I bought a copy of Naudet 9|11 DVD after watching "In Plane Site". Wanted to see what the raw frames looked like for the flashes. The flashes are there all right, but I don't think "In Plane Site" extrapolated correctly from the single frame of flash. I basically spent a few days taking in conspiracy theories and the rebuttals. Watch to see my take on it.
It probably helps to have seen the Flash animation implying Pentagon was hit by a missile, and the documentary "In Plane Site". My video is a response to those, and its probably not fair to only hear my rebuttal.
Something maybe not clear in the video is that while I don't believe US Gov is responsible for the attacks, I also don't think it is an entirely unreasonable assumption. Despite Bush's claims to the contrary, he fought the 9/11 Commission every step of the way. No one puts the neocons on the hot seat, asking pointed questions about The Project for a New American Century.
AND there are undoubtably copies of video footage showing SOMETHING hitting the Pentagon. Why not release it? My very own conspiracy theory is that the existence of conspiracy theorists are of a stategic advantage to the Bush administration. There is no clear line between "Bush invaded Iraq under false pretenses" to "Bush had prior warning of 9/11" to "someone in US Gov is responsible for 9/11". Better to discredit them all with a "conspiracy theory" label.
June 6, 2010 Subject:
Engin punching through the wall
I had to stop watching after a few minutes due to the misleading information in this rebuttal film. After stating the engine punched the hole in the inner ring, one must then ask the obvious question. If it punched its way through the ring where did it end up? After punching its way through it just disappears into thin air?
I need not go any further since there is no logic used by the creator of this debunking film.
As I was trying to find a movie entitled "Casino Royale", I downloaded what I thought was the movie thru a sharing program. It wasn't. I found the movie called Loose Change.
This movie sheds a lot of information that I as an American citizen (not a family member/victim of September 11) was curious about. I can say honestly this movie does answer some questions & raises others.
It seemed 'convenient' that the exact airplane serial numbers show up today as the 'supposed' 'hijacked' airliners. I also thought my eyes were playing tricks on me when I saw the buildings come down.
So many questions that are remaining unanswered to this day. How are we American citizens supposed to trust those we elected into office?
Overall, this movie is greatly appreciated. I do like it and would love to find the actual DVD of it so I can add it to my personal collection of September 11, 2001 DVD's I currently own.
n 1978 Serrano, a Chilean diplomat and Nazi sympathizer, published The Golden Band, in which he claimed that Adolf Hitler was an avatar of Vishnu and was then communing with Hyperborean gods in an underground Antarctic base. Serrano predicted that Hitler would lead a fleet of UFOs from the base to establish the Fourth Reich.
October 11, 2006 Subject:
HEY CHIEF,,,about your pros and cons on 911
HEY CHIEF,,,about your pros and cons on 911.
NICE written piece you have here. I wanted to find SOMETHING very substantial to (NOT) hang the Bushees and the Neo Cons on, in regard to 911 and WALK away from the 911 trilogy with ONLY find that Bush Jr is the worst President of all time(PLENTY of techncial & emotional evidence for this point of view).
BUT I could NOT find one CLEAR and wart-LESS piece of evidence that LEADS to the fact that 911 is a TERRORIST attack, revolving amongst and ONLY... the Islamic fundamentalists.
Therefore, and for RIGHT NOW ONLY,,,,I present to all of you CLEAR thinking humanoids... two pieces of evidence FOR ME points to the fact that the Bush camp and its cronies are DIRECT murderers,,, (OR) they HAVE very complicit info that morning of 911(PROBABLY via Cheney's INSULTING secret war games) to SUMMIZE in NBC living color, that they KNEW a terrorist attack was HAPPENING. AND simply(with complexity , LET IT HAPPEN).
I for this moment and MAYBE for ever more WILL lean on the fact, THAT of all the many many pictures taken by civilian and special opts on the grounds at the Pentagon that day, NOT one picture of the damage of the Pentagon wall shows any CLEAR indication of a HOLE symmetrically large enough to have been hit and driven BY a 757 or a 737 or a missle either. AND then conjoining what is there(a rather small AND SQUARE like opening), and tracing back to and through the RINGS of almost perfectly squared off CIRLCES. ITS easy to see that WHATEVER did hit the front of the Pentagon, was NOT A COMMERCIAL airliner NOR a missle. ...WHAT YOU ASK?
THE only conclusion so far that I can come to(and until someone of HIGH esteem and rational thinking shows me A PICTURE that I have never seen before of a HOLE in the front wall of the Pentagon that also lines up VERY well with the INNER PENTAGON RINGS OVAL damage),,,is that the PENTAGON was NOT hit or damaged by a 757 or a missle. BUT rather a special device or a bomb of some expenditure/making WAS (first) placed in front of the Pentagon, exploded with near perfect timing(AND probably on the video tapes that we will never seen from this LIAR be all of all time Bush camp), and then the INNER ring damge or ARCHITECTURE(looking like damage) was already made.
THE CULPRITS?....Most likely... the NEO CONS and some level of the Bush crime family. IF this frontal LOPE of carnage.. of the Pentagon was a REAL TERRORIST attack and NOT the Bushees. THEN these current bunch of terrorists have more FAMILY JEWELS for killing then the entire Bush family does.
Hence the reason for the TOTALLY FAKE or doctored up release of the SECURITY camera video at the front or SIDE entrance driveway to the Parkging lot of the Pentagon. THAT VIDEO RELEASE really proved how LOW and LOWER this Bush team will go to fool everyone on ANY ISSUE. AND the corresponding and only 4 year LATE release of the CITGO video is NOTHING more then ANOTHER slap in our faces. IT SHOWS ONLY VERY VERY SMALL video shots of supposedly the 911 attack on the Pentagon. AND ALL that I can make out is bubble gum and some diet Pepsi cans looming in the FOOD section and INSIDE of the Citgo station(HEY Mr. Bushee Jr and DEFENSE Department),,,THAT WAS SUPPOSED to be an OUTSIDE video semi wide angle shot of the GUYS property at the Citgo station. AND THEN scoping out NATURALLY the same video shot with a VERY CLEAR unobstructed shot of the ATTACK of the Pentagon itself. I was surprised this video wasn't a half witted attempt at ANTI Democratic political bashing. WITH Clinton thrown in for measure HAVING sex with the SQUIGEE windshield washing girl at that station, during her McDonald's LATE morning breakfast break. MAYBE Clinton did propose to Monica and maybe he did not. DOES anyone have THOSE video tapes of Monica entering his ORAL office for the first time. OR do I have to presume this was FALSE publicity about Uncle and Aunt Bill Clinton, that Bill just went along with. FOR the sake of negative to eventual positive publicity?
NOW if some of you out there in LA LA Bush Liathon land want to prove me wrong. THEN FIND ME A PICTURE of the front of the Pentagon anywhere from 15 minutes after the damage took place to roughly say....1 hour after the damage took place. AND MAKE sure YOUR picture of THE SO CALLED correct hole LOOKS like a size to fit the FRONT end of a 757 or a missle and that IT ALSO lines up WITH THE CORRECT side angle form that DID SHOW on the official Pentagon pictures for the entire DAMAGE representing the inner rings.
AND I will NOT go into detail here(unless someone asks me for proof) of why the ENTIRE Pennsylvania 911 crash site is a sham. I WILL REST my case on the fact that THE initial reported site in Shanksville PA, does not have NEARLY enough remnants of remains of body and plane parts to QUALITY for a real FEMA and FBI crash site in the UNITED STATES. AND then to have the President, Cheney and Rumsfeld ALL go on record as HAVING completely different VERSIONS of how that Site happened, IS A MONSTER OF A LIAR'S HALL OF FAME. And soo insulting to us all that its not WONDER all of America is on anti depressants of some sort. BUSH still claims that it was the heroic "LETS ROLL" passengers that brought the plane down to CRASHING and disintergrating ALL ABOARD earth. AND NOW A-hole Cheney & Rumsfeld are COMPLETELY on record as saying,,,THAT WE SHOT THE PLANE DOWN and anywhere from 2-8 miles away. YET they can not or will not show us any pictures of that debree. COME ON GUYS.....RESIGN BEFORE YOU KILL US ALL.
AND ABOUT the Naudet Brothers video of the first tower being hit. ANYONE who bothers to go to the exact intersection in Lower Manhattan where they VIDEO taped their INCREDIBLE all time famous first hit of the tower will determine the following and very quickly. THAT the angle of the approaching AIRLINER or missle, was in such a UNHISTORICAL 45-55 degree in the sky and ONLY soo many few hundred feet off the ground. THAT even a fantastic video guy or girl,,,hearing this very sudden roar of an engine coming by, COULD not have the talent to make such a FANTASTIC and sweeping UP tilt to AMAZINGLY smooth and jarring LEFT HAND PAN movement and CATCH the object coming perfectly around several buildings and then FRAMING the object 98% to perfection as it struck the first tower. CONCLUSION; these Naudet brothers EITHER faked the entire sequence of shooting, and OVER LAPPED the video scenes of the towers being hit using SPECIAL affects from a computer software system. OR,,,,they were tipped off by special people TO BE IN THE EXACT right place at the most FAMOUS in American History moments. LOGIC should rest on the side, that these guys were also complicit, and were tipped off either by some arm of the Bush administration or BY the terrorists. AND SINCE Bush jr has NOT distanced himself from this VIDEO tape in four years, I Presume that this is my evidence showing to me and to the rest of the world that the Bush Jr administration and the Neo Cons are muderers. YOU THINK NOT ? Then prove it to me and I will give you a $1,000.00
ANYONE HAVE ANY PROOF that is clear and different then WHAT I SAID,,,,feel free to email me at :
email@example.com and or call me directly at 718-390-6635. I will be happy to give you $1,000.00 IF you can prove me wrong WITH PICTURES and eyewitnesses that WERE NOT PAID OFF OR PLANTED(pro bush or foe bush).
February 6, 2006 Subject:
Response to Gordons rebuttal of 9/11 video
Thanks for the great material and for making it accessible.
I wanted to respond to your 9/11 rebuttal and make a few points.
First, I obviously donÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂt expect you to take my word for anything and I would ask everyone to learn more about the event and decide for themselves. But I will give you my conclusions along with some responses on some specific points you made in your rebuttal.
The ÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂIn Plane SightÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂ video was excellent, in my view but it is not the only one out there. I have literally spent months (more like a few years) thinking about this and I have gone over many of the on line 9/11 investigation sites, many of them are useful and informative and even so when they disagree on one point or another.
I think it is most important to see more than one video about this event.
Please check out this link where the current crop of 9/11 videos can be downloaded for free;
Currently available at the above link;
Loose Change, inc V2,
Alex Jones, Martial Law 911
911 In Plane Sight
David Ray Griffin Lecture
Rep. Cynthia McKinney, 911 Report Card
All of these videos are helpful and I think essential to view.
In addition, there are a few books I would recommend;
Barbarians Inside the Gate, set of three volumes, Donn de Grand Pre
9/11 Synthetic Terror, Made in the USA, Webster Griffin Tarpley
9-11 Descent into Tyranny, Alex Jones
Inside Job: Unmasking the Conspiracies of 9/11, Jim Marrs
I have just a few points in a rebuttal to what you said in your video piece.
The aircraft wreckage at the pentagon was identifiable. There was a light construction single engine jet plane which hit the building and a missile most likely fired by the automated Pentagon perimeter defense system which hit simultaneously.
The aircraft wreckage came from a single engine Global Hawk and it was the missile that penetrated 5 walls of the building, making nearly perfectly round penetrations of the interior walls.
If a 757-passenger jet had hit the Pentagon its 60+ tons of materials would have been identifiable as well. There was no such wreckage.
You assert that the Bush administration is incompetent and argue that therefore they could have not carried out a sophisticated operation like 9/11.
In response, I would agree with you that Bush himself is an ignoramus about such things as constitutional law and economics which any president should be knowledgeable about. He is however, clever like s sewer rat. I characterize him by saying he has four methods and only four, he lies, he steals, he cheats and he fights or plays dirty. An example, I am fairly certain that he was behind the Anthrax mailings because the single thing that unites all the targets is that Bush had a strong personal motive for vengeance against all of the targets.
But the point is the 9/11 attacks do not rest on the operational competence of the Bush administration per se.
The 9/11 events were a cold coup d'etat, engineered by Cheney and Rumsfeld and the civilian heads of the Pentagon, all of them carry-overs from the first Bush administration, all of them sworn to the PNAC agenda.
This inside job was in the works for more than a decade, and it was carried out by freelance elements of defense intelligence who have the hardware, means and budget to make something like this happen. And when you really are more familiar with all of the events and circumstances, it will be clear that this could not have been done by 19 Saudis, who were in fact patsies in the classic sense, to the extent that they played any role at all.
As you did not dispute, Bush and the neocons wanted a new Pearl Harbor event to use as justification for the PNAC agenda and that is how they have used the event.
The several videos I referred to above show that the airplanes that hit the WTC buildings were not passenger jets and that they were equipped with explosive devices, missiles meant to create "shock and awe" as they hit the buildings. As the jet fuel spilled out of the plane on impact the incendiary missile, which entered the structure milliseconds before, caused the fuel to burst into a large fireball. This was a part of the diversion. This event is seen in all of the four known videos of the North Tower impact.
But more importantly in fact, the buildings were brought down by many massive demolition explosions. Including massive explosions in the sub-basement and in the upper floors of the building as it collapsed straight down over its foundation.
The official explanation that the fires started by the jet impacts caused the building to collapse is simply ridiculous. Molten metal in the sub-basements of the building was found at temperatures a thousand degrees above the temperature at which jet fuel can burn in the atmosphere, and these pools of molten metal were found to still be at these temperatures more than one and a half months after 9/11.
The videos make these point much more completely than I can so let me move on to the bigger picture.
Isn't it a bit strange that GW Bush's brother Marvin was the head of security for the WTC complex during that time?
Ask yourself, Isn't it strange how just the buildings owned by Larry Silverstein in that complex were so affected, and that just barely two months before 9/11/01 he had taken out big insurance policies on his big time money losing properties?
WTC building 7, owned by Silverstein, was further away from the WTC towers which were impacted by the planes, and it collapsed, yet other comparable structures nearer to the WTC Towers, not owned by Silverstein, did not collapse, even though they suffered some significant damage from the debris of the towers when the towers collapsed.
Larry Silverstein says on record that they made the decision to pull WTC 7. But how did the building come down so perfectly at free fall speeds, again right over its foundation, unless the charges were perfectly placed and the detonations timed perfectly?
How did they get the large quantities of demolition materials needed into the building on the late afternoon of 9/11, after the WTC plane impacts and prior to its early evening demolition? No one was seen taking demolition charges into the building and perfect demolitions require weeks of study and planning and placing of charges and there are sophisticated calculations needed related to how to time the detonations. all of which has to be planned out and rechecked prior to carrying out the demolition.
So it is clear that the charges were placed in the WTC 7 building prior to 9/11 and were ready to go. Also, WTC 7 just happened to be the CIA and FBI and NY City and State HQ for security and it was their disaster response control center, a perfect place to house a control and monitoring station for the 9/11 operation. And the demolition of WTC 7 was a perfect way to destroy any incriminating evidence of the operation.
Its obvious that demolitions were similarly pre-staged in the WTC towers as well prior to 9/11/01. The Trade Center complex security operations managers (Marvin Bush in charge) kept everyone out of the buildings on several weekends prior to the 9/11 event.
Furthermore, there were no Al Qaeda terrorists on the 9/11 American and United flights, they wee not listed on the plane passenger lists, and 7 to 9 of the alleged and CIA identified - pictures and named terrorists are alive and living in the middle east today.
There were no cell phone calls from the air planes, from the bathrooms on the air planes. Tests show that cell phones cannot make reliable connections to cell sites which aim their reception over a horizontal plane at near ground level. Cell phones just do not work at 35,000 feet and if you could get a connection up, the call would not last for as long as several minuets or tens of minutes as reported in the official fairy tale.
No one on those flights said "Lets Roll" everyone on those flights was gassed into unconsciousness within a few minuets after take off and the planes were flown by remote autopilot over the Atlantic and dumped into the ocean.
The airplane over Pennsylvania was shot down by a regional contingent of the US Air Force who were not at that precise moment under the thumb of Dick Cheney as he co-coordinated the stand-down of US defense forces at the time of the 9/11 attack from a NORAD bunker.
Ask yourself isn't it an odd sort of coincidence that there was a planned defense department drill for that day, giving them the opportunity to tell people, ÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂJust ignore what is happening on your radar screens- its just a drillÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂ ?
IsnÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂt it odd that many people received warnings not to fly into New York on that day, people such as former San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown, and that then Attorney General Ashcroft refused to fly on passenger jets based on warnings starting about a month prior to the 9/11 events?
On the day before 9/11 several substantial short positions were taken on the stock market on American and United airline stocks.
And there are numerous reports of warnings sent by instant messages to Israeli nationals at work in the WTC buildings, messages sent thru ISPs with a basis in Israeli owned communications firms.
There are reports that intelligence agencies from many nations, Britain, Italy, Russia, Germany all sent warnings to the CIA that a major attack was immanent.
Bush and Rice in their daily security briefings on 9/10 were warned that such an attack was immanent, yet they did nothing about it.
Isn't it a strange co-incidence that the air traffic defense system tapes from that day were deliberately destroyed? Sort of like Ruby killing Oswald isn't it?
Isn't it an odd sort of event that helicopters painted to look like FEMA helicopters which were a part of that defense department drill, were video taped after the WTC jet impacts dropping incendiaries on the WTC buildings to keep the fires going? And this was done as people hung out from the gashes in the building hoping to be rescued and while others jumped or fell to their deaths choosing that rather than a death by fire.
Further consider that the US response against Afghanistan which the corporate media lauded, was a complete disaster, Bush and the neocons did not want their asset Osama Ben Laden captured or killed, he is their modern day "Goldstein" and an invaluable asset for them as they wave the bloody shirt every election eve.
Do you remember that just days before the 2004 presidential election OBL came out and endorsed John Kerry according to the corporate media and the GOP?
Bush never sent the US forces needed to eliminate the Taliban in Afghanistan. He wanted those forces for Iraq, even though he told the public month after month as the military build up occurred, that he had just not made a final decision about a military campaign against Iraq.
As former Secretary of the Treasury, Paul OÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂNeill said, Bush was determined to invade Iraq from the very first days of his administration. Cheney and oil industry executives met in the White House and reviewed maps and plans for the takeover of IraqÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂÃÂs oil fields in the early days of their administration.
At that time Bush had members of the Taliban in Huston and told them it will be carpets of gold or carpets of bombs, depending upon how well they cooperate with the plans for a trans-Afghanistan oil and gas pipeline from the Caspian region thru Pakistan and India.
So, every thing Bush does, everything, follows those four and only four methods he knows; lie, steal, cheat and fight dirty. It does not matter who gets hurt, or how many. Today some 9000 US troops have been killed in action and perhaps 130,000 Iraqis have been killed, and you can bet that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, et al never lost a minuets sleep over those deaths.
It is obvious that 9/11 was an inside job when you know more of the facts and the big picture about this administration.
September 1, 2005 Subject:
The Truth Awaits...
The Pentagon strike is the one 911 issue I'm not sure about. I've seen a convincing case made on both sides and eyewitness testimony is all over the place. Shut people up and release the tapes I say!!! Like Michael "Half Truths" Moore pointed out there are hundred or more cameras at different angles on the roof and in the parking lot. Not to mention the gas station tapes the FBI took.
This site --->
shows how even in the very best scenario at the Pentagon there are serious issues. However, the webmasters think many 911 sites are "bogus" that are not. They just have disagreements on certain issues. The overall point still remains though.... All the evidence, taken as a whole, clearly shows at worst a Government inside job and at best Government complicity. The Pentagon issues are but one very small piece of the puzzle.
From Oil Empire:
"The Pentagon attack:
the "no plane" theories discredit 9/11 skepticism and distract from proven evidence of complicity
The real issues:
WHERE Flight 77 hit -- the nearly empty, recently reconstructed and strengthened sector
WHY the Air Force did not defend its headquarters, even after the towers had been hit
WHO scheduled multiple war game exercises that morning, including the "plane into building" scenario?"
Martial Law: 911 Rise of the Police State is the best 911 documentary ever made. Watch it for free here ---> http://revradio.org/movies/ml.wmv
August 20, 2005 Subject:
RevolutionJim: Oh Come On
You can't be serious. I took on "In Plane Site" and the pentagon video in the best faith I could. If you have a point-by-point rebuttal, post it. But my take is that "In Plane Site" does NOT extrapolate correctly from the few frames of Naudet footage available. I fully encourage everyone to watch "In Plane Site", watch my rebuttal (or visit similar web sites) and then make their call. If you find fault with my rebuttal (I don't even challenge some point in "In Plane Site") then post those challenges.
I truly don't think that Bush admin was "on the ball" resending to 9/11 attacks. How negligent they were SHOULD be up for debate. But my personal belief is that the administration did not direct 9/11 attacks, they were simply (incredibly) negligent. -Gord
August 19, 2005 Subject:
CNN - Communist News Network
This video is more of the same put out by the likes of other communist rags like the NY Times ,the Washington Post,CNN,FOX news,ABC,CBS,NBC and all others owned by the facist GE ,Clear Channel and Viocom ect..If you want the same lies get this if you want the truth get "911 In Plane Site".And please visit pelow it is free.
The news media is totally under control.The only free speach media right now is shortwave radio or internet radio.
Home schooling ect...
Go here and click listen.Online radio.Freetalk live ,telephone callin welcome
00:09 Plane Site commentary with contradictory images.
00:40 "From wingtip to wingtip..."
01:33 "Is this the only security camera..."
02:14 Flash upon impact.
02:58 Zoom on raw Naudet footage, no smoothing.
03:21 Eye witness accounts of Pentagon impact.
04:44 Project for the New American Century.
06:17 Camera shakes 13 seconds before impact.
06:41 Howard Dean on Conspiracy Theories (audio).